A Matter of Horse

All things Equine, all over the world.

Facebook Pinterest Twitter

Voice cues or body language

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby Trudi » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:29 am

I don't aim to use my voice alone though, it is a blend I use in training but the voice phases out (just like the click phases out) so that you ride almost from the thought of what you want. I find it really helpful, for instance, when training a collected gait to be able to use the voice to keep the pace (ie not drop back to walk) while I use seat/weight cues to encourage the energy 'up' rather than forwards.

JennieF wrote: I do talk to them a lot, in fact all the time they dont seem to mind ...


I think this is important, because for all our clever investigations in to what horses perceive and how they handle the data we throw at them I think they cope wonderfully with whatever we use in terms of communication, as long as the intent is good.
Image
User avatar
Trudi
 
Posts: 5118
Images: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:47 pm
Location: Exmoor

Share On:

Share on Facebook Facebook Share on Twitter Twitter

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby spottygiraffe » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:46 pm

Love all your 'c' words, Trudi :xmasdrink:

Trudi wrote:when training a collected gait to be able to use the voice to keep the pace (ie not drop back to walk) while I use seat/weight cues to encourage the energy 'up' rather than forwards.

Sounds good :thumbup:

glenatron wrote:there is room for way more subtlety when you're using body language and energy to communicate.

I think that is probably true -but then going back to Trudi's 'c' words, you have to be skilled and self-aware enough to make them very clear.

Just thinking about ridden work -in an ideal world would we want to find the perfect position and not deviate from it, even just to give aids? In my world certainly I have a tendency to overcook seat aids, so that might be an example of where I'd be better off using a vocal cue instead. It would be difficult to train though because the horse does naturally respond to subtle shifts in weight.
Sarah x

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
spottygiraffe
 
Posts: 5294
Images: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:56 am
Location: Montauban, SW France

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby glenatron » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:30 pm

spottygiraffe wrote:ust thinking about ridden work -in an ideal world would we want to find the perfect position and not deviate from it, even just to give aids? In my world certainly I have a tendency to overcook seat aids, so that might be an example of where I'd be better off using a vocal cue instead. It would be difficult to train though because the horse does naturally respond to subtle shifts in weight.

I don't think that's necessarily right because the position is absolutely dynamic, it should be part of the horse's movement and the horse's movement should be part of that- it's not a static state. So it should be fluidly adjusting to change with the horse's position.

If you are overcooking your seat aids, rather than change to a different system from one that already works but you think needs finesse, why not just work on your finesse? Or just don't use your seat at all until you have the transitions you are working on connected to another aid? Voice cues are easy for us, but as you observe, horses naturally respond to subtle shifts in weight. Why would we not want to work with the thing they naturally respond to?
glenatron
 

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby spottygiraffe » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:55 pm

glenatron wrote:If you are overcooking your seat aids, rather than change to a different system from one that already works but you think needs finesse, why not just work on your finesse?

Well indeed :xmaslaugh: But it's easier said than done. I'm not just talking about me either, it is broader than that -overcooking the seat aids is a very common issue. Anyway, I was just thinking out loud really.
Sarah x

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
spottygiraffe
 
Posts: 5294
Images: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:56 am
Location: Montauban, SW France

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby littlewhitehorse » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:36 am

I don't really care what CUE you use whether it is vocal or physical, what matters is how easy it is to be understood- CLARITY.

Good one Trudi :thumbup: Neat C words :xmaslaugh:

Sarah made some interesting comments, even if only thinking aloud – this is a discussion so we want that! :thumbup: that you're still thinking about it even though you've taken a break from training and riding; I do think with you that you just haven't found your true path and there is so much more out there in horsemanship for you to discover when you come back to it, which I hope you will when you're ready.

I agree with much of what Ben said, and the seat being dynamic, and I was already wanting to query Sarah to define seat aids. The seat is just a part of the body in contact with the horse usually via the saddle and is one way of conveying a body cue or weight change, or channelling energy, to ask for an upward transition for instance. For me it isn’t just the seat that does this, it is a whole body thing.
As Trudi describes :
so that you ride almost from the thought of what you want.

Exactly what I want :thumbup: .

I think the “perfect position” (if it exists) comes more from doing less which comes from training to finesse which comes from teaching and believing that the horse is capable of responding to so little if we present it progressively and build carefully. So the aim should not be to look like a dressage rider but to discover for yourself the means through which to achieve a similar level of subtle communication, the idealogical dance of horse and human.

fabikat wrote:I quite often find when I have finished working on something, be it ridden or on the ground, that I wish I had used my voice cues a little more.

Katy, might be interesting if you would enlarge on that and why you wish you'd used voice more?
User avatar
littlewhitehorse
 
Posts: 2976
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:34 pm
Location: Lot, SW France

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby fabikat » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:00 pm

fabikat wrote:
I quite often find when I have finished working on something, be it ridden or on the ground, that I wish I had used my voice cues a little more.

Katy, might be interesting if you would enlarge on that and why you wish you'd used voice more?


Sheila, I will try and answer, it is good that you ask.

More than anything I feel like it is a cue I still need to apply because I am quite often lacking in my ability to use other cues. When riding if I am working on something new and/or difficult I find it reassuring to use the voice, for both me and, I believe, the horse. I am not sure that I relay to the horse that he has performed/reacted correctly if I do not use my voice to reward. My timing for a release, for example, is not as good as it should be, so I use my voice to reward the smallest try from the horse.
As for groundwork and working inhand, this is all very new to me and I can honestly say I have already learned so much about body language and the horses mind, it is fascinating. Being as my technique when working from the ground is extremely limited I still find the voice useful for me. In my limited experience I already feel that I would like to learn to use the voice progressively less and less but for now I lack the knowledge to do so. However , when I am mulling over my time spent with the horses after working them I sometimes feel that I could have used my voice even more so I guess I dont over use it as a cue.

Not sure if any of that makes sense to anyone else :xmaslaugh:
katy x
User avatar
fabikat
 
Posts: 1533
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:27 pm
Location: sevilla, southern spain

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby JennieF » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:29 pm

I use the voice constantly to reward and to let the horse know if he has reacted in the right way ... its not always possible to give a 'release' but a "good" just lets them know that what they have done was right ...

As an example, I like Bandit to take a step backwards when I step over the fence to but his feed in his bowl - I dont want them crowding me so I often say 'back' and then 'good' when they have done so - now he steps back as I come over the fence - I cant give him a release but I do like to communicate verbally that I am pleased with what he has 'offered' ....

I see it all as communication - I know horses don't talk as such, but they are v quick to tune into human vocalisations - and the difference between positive and negative - one of my liveries did nothing but criticize her poor horse - calling it names and constantly telling it when it did wrong, but never praising it when it did right - it was a thoroughly miserable horse when she was around and it would constantly mis-behave, pulling back and fidgeting. It got to the stage where the blacksmith and I would agree to tell her that he was coming an hour later they he actually was so that we could get the horse shod before she arrived as it was so much easier for all of us ...but the saddest thing was that she just couldnt see what was wrong and why the mare was so difficult ....
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
JennieF
 
Posts: 2970
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:14 pm

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby spottygiraffe » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:34 pm

Still reading with interest :thumbup:
Sarah x

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
spottygiraffe
 
Posts: 5294
Images: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:56 am
Location: Montauban, SW France

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby littlewhitehorse » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:04 pm

:thumbup: Katy, makes sense now, also remembered to read your other thread too.

JennieF wrote:I use the voice constantly to reward and to let the horse know if he has reacted in the right way ... its not always possible to give a 'release' but a "good" just lets them know that what they have done was right ...


I was thinking about exactly the same thing this afternoon as I was doing this! Asking myself how much it was just my habit and how much it was necessary to the horse.

JennieF wrote:I see it all as communication - I know horses don't talk as such, but they are v quick to tune into human vocalisations - and the difference between positive and negative -


Very true. Sad story of your livery. Good example of how continuous negative vocalisation can have an effect on a horse.
User avatar
littlewhitehorse
 
Posts: 2976
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:34 pm
Location: Lot, SW France

Re: Voice cues or body language

Postby Chevalblanc » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:29 am

littlewhitehorse wrote:
Sad story of your livery. Good example of how continuous negative vocalisation can have an effect on a horse.


:agree:

Amazing how a horse can be completely different when there's a change of owner sometimes......I hate it when people blame the horse :evil:
Helen

ImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Chevalblanc
 
Posts: 7296
Images: 103
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:00 pm
Location: Gloucestershire, UK

PreviousNext

Return to Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests